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EvilNick
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The Federal Court Ruling That Could Impact The National Popular Vote Push

Well another decent conversation cut short by stopped threads and comments.

I enjoyed chatting with this person and wanted to move it here in case they wanted to keep going, which it sounded like they did.

Not really sure how much sense the comment strings below will make but I tried.

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Evil Nick 5 days ago
like? please elaborate with examples. Im willing to bet its not as many or the countries you think.Also the division you speak of is REALLY only on the left. 8 years of Obama and the right wasnt going half as crazy as the left and this is coming from a centralist person who actually voted for Obama (first term).

European Discoman 4 days ago
Germany, France, Netherlands, Spain, Australia, New Zealand, every single Nordic Country, the list goes on. Note that direct presidential elections do not always exist in these countries, as they are parliamentary elections. My point is actually that popular vote does not lead to chaos as is stated above.

Your comment as to the left going more crazy is open to discussion in my view. Birtherism, hysterical anti-Obamacare, Bengahzi over reaction, denying supreme court elections, and I could give more examples of right wing crazy. All I am saying is: both sides do it. And to be fair: it started mostly during Obama (not during the Bush years) and in a sense the left’s is more/partly a reaction to the opposition to Obama.

Lastly: the way Trump acts in public (cynical gaming of racial sensitivities, lying to soothe his ego, disrespect to woman and other countries and actually everyone and everything that is not willing to agree or accomodate him personally) is much more agressive than any of his predecessors and is bound to get a more agressive response. This last bit hits my main concern with Trump: his way of doing things only adds to division which is the last thing the US needs.

Evil Nick
as for the left/right going "crazy" Im talking about the left wing groups who say theyre fighting "fascism" yet acting like early nazis. Thats the craziness Im talking about. Not to mention the outright rabble rousing by the lefts "leaders" that its okay to attack someone for wearing a hat or shirt?! Thats just outrageous. They trash Trump for "not denouncing" white supremacists, which he did multiple times yet NONE of the left denounces they water assaults on NY cops, attacking MAGA wearers, or antifa assaulting voters and destroying property. Its just very odd. I dont think Trump does anything to cause division. That is actually the media and the left causing that, but its to long a discussion to go into but I saw it first hand at his rally in CT during 2016. A friend brought me with him cause he had an extra ticket. I ended up voting for him mainly because of it. Also because it is hysterical and Im loving it but after seeing how the news and the protestors acted towards him, it showed me hes not the problem, they are.
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Evil Nick
for everyone who screams popular vote, I ask them do they like Edrogen from Turkey. When they say "no", I remind them he basically made himself dictator there by converting their electoral system to popular so he could run again. Look it up, they are usually pretty pissed to see their failed logic in action.

European Discoman
True about Erodgan, but that had nothing to do with popular vote, but rather with a failed Turkish constitution. You are saying that popular vote rule leads to dictatorship? Almost every country in the world has simple majority democracy without becoming a dictatorship.

Evil Nick
using a popular system would not work in this country. It would literally let 3 states decide the other 47. How would that not be fair. In the end we have a republic so even if you hate the president he does not have omnipotent power over all. Each state can pretty much make their own laws. I dont see the need for this debate unless certain states want to enforce their beliefs on other states that dont want them..... pretty fascist really.

European Discoman

I agree, and I think the EC works better than popular vote (I am convinced in another discussion thread - progress of a kind!).

Fascism is extremely nationalist, anti-communist, anti-democratic, anti-liberal, and anti-intellectual, and even more complex. Your reference to it makes little sense to be honest. By the way: reading back fascism’s qualities, would you say they apply more to the left or the right? 😉

Evil Nick
fascism is really only using force and violence to get your way. The actual political definition of fascism has changed, is changing and will always change regarding who or what is in power. Its constantly described as "far right" but what does that even mean? If a left wing government comes into power and starts acting like a dictatorship, like Venezuela, does that now make them right wing "cause fascism"? Regardless of the minute semantics fascism is basally just a stepping stone to communism. Socialism is a stepping stone to communism (and Im talking full blown socialism, not just like socialized healthcare). Almost everything is just one step towards communism and most of that is brought on by riled up "popular" opinions.

My comment was saying that giving the popular vote like people here claim they want would become fascist. Probably not really vocalized correctly given the nature of debating/conversing online. In reality the EC gives each "state" an equal say regardless of the hive mind more populated states trend themselves on.

Just mostly my opinions though based on reading, its all we have. Its the internet everything is opinion, no matter the source or the person you are quoting it was all just decided by their opinion.
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